King's College v Saint Kentigern College v Auckland Grammar School

High School Insights High School (New Zealand)
24

I only moved to New Zealand from Singapore a few days before the start of high school, so my decision was primarily based on what I could find online, or through talking to various relocation advisors. I hadn’t visited any of these schools; I didn’t have any friends in NZ going to one school over another to influence my choice; I hadn’t been able to sit any scholarship tests in Singapore (although I was later offered an academic scholarship after my first term).

I therefore feel my decision to attend King’s College was as unbiased as it could be.

Why King’s?

I didn’t initially know about how strong King’s was in terms of US admissions before I applied, but I think the fact that last year’s top students are now attending: Harvard, Trinity College Cambridge, Wharton’s Huntsman Program, Oxford, UChicago, and LSE really speaks for itself.

Firstly, I knew I wanted to attend a school that did A-Levels, particularly due to the academic flexibility as Jamie mentioned. My old school in Singapore did IB, and I thought that was wayyy too limiting. This helped me to eliminate St Kent’s - although I do think it is one of the best private schools in the country. If you want to do IB then I’d definitely say St Kent’s is the best place to be.

Then it came down to Grammar vs King’s.

I thought Grammar was way too large, and didn’t get a very good impression of the culture there. It seemed to me that it was all about academics etc. whereas King’s really emphasised that all-round education aspect. It’s easy to get lost in the crowd if you’re not exceptionally good at anything at such a large school like Grammar, whereas King’s really hones in on what you’re good at, and strives to make you better.

In summary, I’d say the best factors of the King’s College are:

1) King’s really wants the best for you.

Whether you’re into academic, sports, or culture, the environment really supports you to get to where you want to be in your respective area of interest.

e.g. 1
I remember going to the Head of Academics at school to ask him about allowing me to self-studying extra subjects. I had a whole argument prepared, and wasn’t really expecting him to let me. All he said was “Sure go ahead. We just want what’s best for you, and if you think that’s wise then go for it. Just let me know how we can help.” He then proceeded to give me a bunch of textbooks from his cabinet, and offered to mark any practice essays for me.

e.g. 2
One of my friends was really into music (piano specifically), so he had the liberty to skip certain classes and really focus on what he loved to do.

2) The year group is relatively small (217 in 2016.)

This really allows you to get recognition for what you’re good at, and I’d say practically everyone gets the chance to go up on stage or gets their name called out to draw attention to some of their achievements. This kind of environment really pushes you to achieve higher.

I also think the small class sizes are incredible - I had 5 people in my French and Maths classes, and 7 people in my Physics class where we worked on projects - learning CAD, getting a chance to 3D print etc. - to really push hands-on learning outside of the curriculum.

Teachers were also more than willing to put time outside of the classroom to help you - whether you were at the top or the bottom academically. As I said before, you didn’t get lost in the crowd, and they really just wanted the best for you. Having studied in a bunch of different great schools around the world - I think this aspect was most unique about King’s.

Lastly, a small year size also enables most people to get a leadership position in Year 13. The House system certainly facilitates this, and I think practically everyone get a chance to work on their leadership skills throughout their final year by leading the House. King’s has several leadership camps, talks, and programs to further reinforce this aspect.

3) All-round education.

I initially couldn’t really care less about cross country or house music, but looking back I think King’s emphasis on an all-round education really works well. This also really places emphasis on the fact that your House, and the school itself is really just a large supportive community. Your peers were always there to support you if you were playing Rugby or even Chess. No matter the time or weather, there was this incredibly supportive environment that really helped you to learn both inside and outside of the classroom, and enabled you to form life-long relationships and networks.

Overall I think attending King’s was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, and I’d definitely recommend it to anyone. I also think that St Kent’s, AGS, and Macleans are all great schools and would support you as well - it’s all about which one best facilitates your learning style.

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26

Here are my two cents as a King’s Old Boy on the aspects of King’s which really stood out for me and are unmatched by any other secondary school throughout New Zealand.

  1. Kings College has a rich tradition which is absolutely unprecedented in New Zealand. This signifies a number of things. Most notably, this instills a phenomenal amount of pride within the student and alumni community, of their affiliation with King’s, which leads to a number of accessory benefits. Firstly, this sense of pride is the backbone of the amazing networks that are built as a result of attending King’s. The community of King’s - students, parents and Old Boys are immensely proud of what their colleagues go on to achieve and the reflection it has on the education King’s has provided them, and are immensely supportive in each other’s endeavours. This is why you see so many King’s alumni at the core of some of the most competitive industries such as banking and law in New Zealand. King’s alumni who are prevalent in each of these industries love to nurture the next generation of King’s leaders in their given field. Moreover, this rich tradition draws a sense of fascination and curiosity from the students that attend the school, meaning that these students are increasingly engaged in their day-to-day interaction with the school.

  2. There is no other school that promotes all-round learning as much as King’s does. From the onset, as a Year 9, it is compulsory to participate in 2 extra-curricular activities such as music or debating, as well as a winter sport and a summer sport. In this day and age, academic excellence is merely one component that plays a part in you securing your spot in your dream university or job. King’s recognises the fundamental importance of being a competent all-rounder and as a student, by routinely attending all these extra curricular activities from Year 9 to Year 13, this holds you in fantastic stead to apply for the most elite universities or to apply for prestigious jobs down the line.

  3. King’s caters for all. At least when I was at King’s, the classes were streamed from R(Removed) to A6, and every student received a tailored education program. Students in the higher tier streams were taught Latin which is the foundational language of almost every language that exists, and were given the opportunity to have a taste of IGCSE Maths and English a year earlier so that their learning was excelled. On the other side of the spectrum, King’s made sure that others’ learning was not dragging behind and provided an increased amount of learning support to students in the lower tier classes so that every student could reach their potential.

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27

Your first point isn’t very accurate - Auckland Grammar was founded in 1869 whereas King’s College was founded in 1896. With AGS being both older, more accessible and larger I would argue it has more tradition.

Secondly, some of the users highlighted that the King’s environment seems to have systematic bullying and drug issues. One poster referred to Grammar having similar levels of bullying but boarding schools at King’s seem particularly bad and seems to fuel quite a macho, dog eat dog culture.

How would you respond?

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  1. Regarding tradition, I don’t believe the richness, per se, of tradition is purely defined by the amount of time that something has existed for. Yes, Grammar was founded earlier but the issue is that the students of Grammar themselves don’t appreciate this. When you come across students from Grammar after they have left school, the majority of them are disengaged in the school’s affairs and after they’ve left school, that’s it from them. However, the tradition and culture of King’s naturally nurtures its students to feel a boiling sense of pride in their affiliation with the school, which is why you see so many students that are immensely proud of their King’s roots, many many years on after graduation.

  2. As a boarder from Year 9 to 13, I can speak with personal experience on this aspect. These bullying and drug issues exist in whatever high school environment you are faced with. Firstly to do with bullying in boarding schools, it is only inevitable that when a bunch of junior students are put into the same living environment as seniors, the seniors are going to enforce their seniority. However, this seniority is never to an extent where it is grossly outrageous with an intent to cause harm. Moreover, I think everyone has completely neglected the fact that King’s has found ways to resolve this issue - namely by establishing an only Year 9 boarding house, so this boarding house “bullying” issue has been alleviated significantly.

The drug issue is nothing to do with the school. Just like any other secondary school, the composition of the student community is very diverse. For every student that refuses to take drugs, there will be one that is willing to. It is a matter of self discipline which the students themselves are responsible for. I guarantee that if we were to conduct a survey on the amount of drug use among each of these schools, the results would not differ dramatically.

29

This debate is just irrelevant, and if I was a parent, I would send my child to Macleans College located in East Auckland.

Firstly, I have no idea why Macleans isn’t in the question, considering the travel tiem between Central Auckland and Kings is approximately the same as the travel time between CA and Macleans —Do we purposely want to send our kids to schools which have more show than substance?

  1. It’s a public school - it’s cheap, it’s social, it’s diverse, it’s tough. - as a relatively wealthy parent, I know the importance of teaching my children that they have to fight for themselves. Private schools don’t provide an optimum enviornment where kids can truly develop into independent, resilient, and hardworking adults. I want my kids to avoid the elitism, the pretentiousness, and the complacency, the pride at schools like Kings and Saint Kents, maybe even AGS to an extent.

  2. Macleans has the best academics, no questions asked. If you look at historical data in the past 5 years, Macleans has gotten the highest number of NZQA scholarships in NZ and has excelled in the CIE curriculum with the highest number of Top in NZ/World awards in NZ on average. Macleans also has an excellent extra-curricular program. Macleans has sent the highest number of students to the International Science Olympiad (indisputably the most prestigious and rigorous competition for high school students in the world) - Kings, AGS, and Saint Kents arn’t even close.

  3. Macleans has sent the most students to Harvard, Yale, and Princeton in the last 4 years. It has gotten 3 Harvard acceptances, 2 Yale acceptances, and 2 Princeton acceptances, higher than any other school in NZ.

It doesn’t take a genius to notice the significant superiority in calibre of a top Macleans student compared to top Kings/SaintKents/AGS student.

Regardless of my main points, the most important thing to note is that Macleans students are actually humble.

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30

While I appreciate the creative answer Anon44, Macleans has a few issues:

  1. the campus is really limited and for sportsmen in particular this drastically reduces options. All of the schools mentioned but Macleans have very competitive sports teams which are a core part of their culture. Macleans has consistently weak sporting programs and performance and basically never wins any of the major sporting competitions. This cuts it out for a lot of students.
  2. kids at Macleans tend to underperform in all speaking, leadership and debating competitions and never rank in Auckland Schools Debating. The other schools mentioned consistently produce well-rounded leaders. Macleans, while it produces good academics, produces even head students which are slightly odd socially.
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31

Hi Anon53,

A few more things to consider at King’s:

A. There is an astonishing lack of diversity in terms of students from the Maori, Pacific Island and Samoan community at King’s. In most years there is literally <8 in a year group of 220. This isolates students from the real demographics of New Zealand which AGS and to some extent even SKC provides
B. While age may not be the only driver of legacy to the school, Grammar soldiers take immense pride in their school. The attendance at sports game is very high and the attendance at old collegians event is also very high as well. I would argue Grammar pride is stronger than King’s. I have spoken to many students from King’s that felt isolated and alienated from the core culture at King’s. At Grammar, nearly everyone finds a group but also takes pride in the school at large.
C. King’s College musical groups tend to underperform those at Auckland Grammar School. The head of music at King’s Mr Sherwood even left to Grammar in recent years which helps make my point.

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Hi Anon 53,

Thank you for confirming your Grammar roots.

  1. Your first point isn’t entirely accurate. King’s College has an Endeavor Scholarship designed for Maori and Pacific Island students to attend the school and there are 6 of these awarded in each year level. On top of these there are at least 5 students a year that are not on one of these. In light of this, St Kent’s which has similar fees to King’s has similar or less amount of students that are Maori or Pacific Islanders.
  2. The attendance at sports games is matched or even done better by King’s. Just watch the Grammar v King’s games from the past 5 years. You will see that the colours of King’s overwhelmingly outweigh Grammar students. What does this show? School pride.
  3. Musical prowess is only one factor to consider when you speak of extra-curricular activities. King’s has consistently excelled in so many other extra-curricular fields where as Grammar and St Kent’s haven’t. Take debating for example. The King’s Advanced Premier team consistently places among the top two within Auckland. Take Kapa Haka as another example - another extra curriciular discipline in which King’s students always excel in. My point is, across the board, students from King’s perform better in extra curricular pursuits than any other school.
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33

I think you are 100% spot on that tradition is not defined by length of existence. However, you are by far mistaken that AGS Old Boys don’t have the same level of pride as that of King’s. They are either on par with King’s in terms of this particular component, or if anything, have more pride/school affiliation/tradition than King’s. I’d say my former point is more accurate though - think about the King’s VS Grammar Rugby games. The turnout from both schools (of all ages!!!).

In addition, AGS has an exceptional Old Boys’ network that you can tap into anywhere in the world; using it as a conversational starter. This is facilitated by the common ground you have with said individual, but also through events the AGS Old Boy’s Association hosts whether you’re in Melbourne, London, New York, or Shanghai. Events are held every year, on multiple occasions, in multiple places.

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34

I guess it’s because only Auckland’s top all-rounded schools were considered. If anything, Westlake fits the bill, acting as a worthy comparison before Macleans ever would.

Also, these schools (AGS/SKC/KC) all have rivalries - Maclean’s isn’t really in the picture.

35

lmao What do you even mean "only Auckland’s top all-rounded schools were considered"
you obviously haven’t done your research.

Macleans is very well-rounded. Sure, our first 15 arn’t as good but we excel in certain niche sports. We also have a wide range of sport teams and our music groups are on par with Westlake. (Macleans and Westlake are usually tied 1st in NZ in terms of music groups/KBB) Additionally, Macleans sends student-athletes to the ivy league. Would you rather be a brainless hardcore athletes who spends their college education only playing sport and be treated as a pure “athlete”, or would you rather have educated athletes who gain a Ivy League Education while furthering their athletic goals as a “student-athlete”. After an injury, they can always start working at Goldman.

The point about Maclean’s sports teams (not true, only true for the popular sports like rugby, football e.g our badminton and table tennis teams is usually ranked 1st in NZ) not being good enough is just biased towards very few sports.

And no, Westlake is like the academically less successful Boys school that doesn’t excel relatively in anything.

Not only that, Westlake got rid of CIE, mostly due to school politics.

I agree though that AGS/SKC/KC has a traditional rivarly but it’s all really a show than something with actual substance.

36

I really struggled with my time as a girl at King’s. When I was there, sexism and bullying were truly alive and well. In my A2 math class, I was the only girl - there were about 15 boys in my class and some of them never let me forget it. I also found it really tough academically, as some of the boys weren’t too keen on the idea of a girl competing with them for top spots in subjects. In the years that I was there, there were never more than 3 girls in the Scholar’s Com (and because of that, they never hung out there). There was also the infamous ‘circle square triangle’ rating incident which further solidified the girls’ position at the school as primarily aesthetic, rather than for a fantastic education (which is definitely what I received). It sounds as though things might be changing at the school, which is really great to hear and I hope it keeps moving that way. In light of all of this though, I think I should have stayed at Dio, where they definitely put a young woman’s needs first.

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Thanks for sharing this - what is the ‘circle square triangle’ rating incident?

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I’m also interested to hear more about this, could you tell us more @anonymous54:

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The “circle square triangle” scandal took place at King’s in 2012. Basically a bunch of male prefects in the prefect common room found a list of all girls in Year 13 and proceeded to rank every single girl either a circle, square or a triangle.

Triangle = Hot/Good Looking
Circle = Okay
Square = Ugly

This was pretty twisted and turned into a pretty big scandal with all the guys involved having to make a public apology at both girl houses. What was even more twisted to some extent was that many girls were very eager to know their rank and the triangles wore it as a badge of honor of sorts which emphasizes the negative stereotype around appearances that has hung over King’s a little bit in recent years.

The rough break down was about 25% of girls were triangles, 50% were circles and 25% were squares.

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As a triangle myself, I can confirm that it was indeed quite a proud achievement of mine

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43

In the earlier comments of this forum, it was established that all three schools are extremely competitive. I’m curious as to whether students within both King’s and SKC as a consequence of this competitive culture, develop a personality that aligns with Machiavellianism?

44

As far as New Zealand goes these schools have strong and healthy competition within key sub-categories (high end academics, rugby, bands etc). I would say the competition is not extreme by any standard and is always fairly friendly and amicable.

These schools are all far less competitive than schools in other countries like Singapore. Check out this list:
https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/posts/top-10-secondary-schools-with-the-most-offers-to-cambridge

Raffles High School in Singapore is for local students who have excelled at a series of ranking exams throughout different levels of their schooling from a very young age and the kids at the school represent the top of the top in one of the strongest academic countries in the world. This creates very intense competition.

Machiavellian means cunning and seeking to advance one’s career through unscrupulous means. I would say this is more a personality trait than anything fostered or accentuated in these environments especially.

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45

I’m a recent graduate of King’s. I was a top scholar and had a top leadership role. Here are my few thoughts on King’s:

  • The academic culture is what you make of it. Most of the teachers are actually quite passionate about their subject, and so they will greatly appreciate and reciprocate when students show enthusiasm and curiosity for their subject. Most of the complaints that I heard throughout my time were because students weren’t proactive or keen enough about what they were learning.

  • The leadership opportunities at King’s are outstanding. There is a whole range of roles in school, in the houses, in the chapel, and plenty more one-off opportunities throughout the year. During the time I was in a prominent leadership position, there was an incredible amount of open-mindedness from the teachers about the events and initiatives that I could organise. I still carry with me today the lessons that I learnt from these experiences, and they are proving to be quite useful in applying for a job.

  • A special academic aspect is the amazing Maths Olympiad training the school provides. From Year 9, the most talented maths students are encouraged to try out Olympiad Maths, and are mentored in how to do well. The IMO is one of the most prestigious academic competitions there is for high school students in the world, and with a sizeable proportion of King’s students attending the NZ training camp, it is quite clear that King’s can provide a solid head-start in this regard.

I started King’s as Year 9 student, and did not regret any moment of it. For me, the combination of the Cambridge system, academic resources available, emphasis on extracurriculars, and leadership opportunities made it stand out the most.

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King’s focus on olympiad has not translated into results. Macleans has sent about 10 students to the International Olympiad in the last 5 years.

Saint Kents, Westlake, Kings, all are light-weight olympiad participants with very little success and are pretty light-weight participants in most academic competitions nationally.

I’m not sure why unless someone wanted to pursue a career in sport, he/she would weigh elite success in few high-profile sports such as Rugby over consistent academic success and rigour of a school like Macleans when choosing a school.

Sure, teaching is probably better at a private school. Smaller class size, more money to hire qualified teachers etc. But do you learn how to be independent and creative in a school where teachers spoon feed your learning? How will you cope with university studies if you’ve never done anything for yourself?

Leadership opportunities at a small private school like Kings, Saint Kents is minimal. The Head Boy at Kings College leads a similar student body to a House Captain at a school like Macleans or Westlake. It’s much easier to get a position at a school like Kings than Macleans, and the quality of leadership is low. At a large school like Macleans and Westlake, it’s very hard and competitive to stand out for positions and the quality of leaders who get selected is much higher than those at smaller schools. At public schools, you have more responsibilities and tasks which require you to go above and beyond the puppet figure at some private schools. There’s much more to leadership than being on school billboards and elite sport teams.

If you want your child to experience the rigours of high school and become prepared for the real world, send him/her to a high-achieving public school like Macleans or even AGS.

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