While I appreciate the creative answer Anon44, Macleans has a few issues:
the campus is really limited and for sportsmen in particular this drastically reduces options. All of the schools mentioned but Macleans have very competitive sports teams which are a core part of their culture. Macleans has consistently weak sporting programs and performance and basically never wins any of the major sporting competitions. This cuts it out for a lot of students.
kids at Macleans tend to underperform in all speaking, leadership and debating competitions and never rank in Auckland Schools Debating. The other schools mentioned consistently produce well-rounded leaders. Macleans, while it produces good academics, produces even head students which are slightly odd socially.
A. There is an astonishing lack of diversity in terms of students from the Maori, Pacific Island and Samoan community at King’s. In most years there is literally <8 in a year group of 220. This isolates students from the real demographics of New Zealand which AGS and to some extent even SKC provides
B. While age may not be the only driver of legacy to the school, Grammar soldiers take immense pride in their school. The attendance at sports game is very high and the attendance at old collegians event is also very high as well. I would argue Grammar pride is stronger than King’s. I have spoken to many students from King’s that felt isolated and alienated from the core culture at King’s. At Grammar, nearly everyone finds a group but also takes pride in the school at large.
C. King’s College musical groups tend to underperform those at Auckland Grammar School. The head of music at King’s Mr Sherwood even left to Grammar in recent years which helps make my point.
Your first point isn’t entirely accurate. King’s College has an Endeavor Scholarship designed for Maori and Pacific Island students to attend the school and there are 6 of these awarded in each year level. On top of these there are at least 5 students a year that are not on one of these. In light of this, St Kent’s which has similar fees to King’s has similar or less amount of students that are Maori or Pacific Islanders.
The attendance at sports games is matched or even done better by King’s. Just watch the Grammar v King’s games from the past 5 years. You will see that the colours of King’s overwhelmingly outweigh Grammar students. What does this show? School pride.
Musical prowess is only one factor to consider when you speak of extra-curricular activities. King’s has consistently excelled in so many other extra-curricular fields where as Grammar and St Kent’s haven’t. Take debating for example. The King’s Advanced Premier team consistently places among the top two within Auckland. Take Kapa Haka as another example - another extra curriciular discipline in which King’s students always excel in. My point is, across the board, students from King’s perform better in extra curricular pursuits than any other school.
I think you are 100% spot on that tradition is not defined by length of existence. However, you are by far mistaken that AGS Old Boys don’t have the same level of pride as that of King’s. They are either on par with King’s in terms of this particular component, or if anything, have more pride/school affiliation/tradition than King’s. I’d say my former point is more accurate though - think about the King’s VS Grammar Rugby games. The turnout from both schools (of all ages!!!).
In addition, AGS has an exceptional Old Boys’ network that you can tap into anywhere in the world; using it as a conversational starter. This is facilitated by the common ground you have with said individual, but also through events the AGS Old Boy’s Association hosts whether you’re in Melbourne, London, New York, or Shanghai. Events are held every year, on multiple occasions, in multiple places.
I guess it’s because only Auckland’s top all-rounded schools were considered. If anything, Westlake fits the bill, acting as a worthy comparison before Macleans ever would.
Also, these schools (AGS/SKC/KC) all have rivalries - Maclean’s isn’t really in the picture.
lmao What do you even mean "only Auckland’s top all-rounded schools were considered"
you obviously haven’t done your research.
Macleans is very well-rounded. Sure, our first 15 arn’t as good but we excel in certain niche sports. We also have a wide range of sport teams and our music groups are on par with Westlake. (Macleans and Westlake are usually tied 1st in NZ in terms of music groups/KBB) Additionally, Macleans sends student-athletes to the ivy league. Would you rather be a brainless hardcore athletes who spends their college education only playing sport and be treated as a pure “athlete”, or would you rather have educated athletes who gain a Ivy League Education while furthering their athletic goals as a “student-athlete”. After an injury, they can always start working at Goldman.
The point about Maclean’s sports teams (not true, only true for the popular sports like rugby, football e.g our badminton and table tennis teams is usually ranked 1st in NZ) not being good enough is just biased towards very few sports.
And no, Westlake is like the academically less successful Boys school that doesn’t excel relatively in anything.
Not only that, Westlake got rid of CIE, mostly due to school politics.
I agree though that AGS/SKC/KC has a traditional rivarly but it’s all really a show than something with actual substance.
I really struggled with my time as a girl at King’s. When I was there, sexism and bullying were truly alive and well. In my A2 math class, I was the only girl - there were about 15 boys in my class and some of them never let me forget it. I also found it really tough academically, as some of the boys weren’t too keen on the idea of a girl competing with them for top spots in subjects. In the years that I was there, there were never more than 3 girls in the Scholar’s Com (and because of that, they never hung out there). There was also the infamous ‘circle square triangle’ rating incident which further solidified the girls’ position at the school as primarily aesthetic, rather than for a fantastic education (which is definitely what I received). It sounds as though things might be changing at the school, which is really great to hear and I hope it keeps moving that way. In light of all of this though, I think I should have stayed at Dio, where they definitely put a young woman’s needs first.
The “circle square triangle” scandal took place at King’s in 2012. Basically a bunch of male prefects in the prefect common room found a list of all girls in Year 13 and proceeded to rank every single girl either a circle, square or a triangle.
Triangle = Hot/Good Looking
Circle = Okay
Square = Ugly
This was pretty twisted and turned into a pretty big scandal with all the guys involved having to make a public apology at both girl houses. What was even more twisted to some extent was that many girls were very eager to know their rank and the triangles wore it as a badge of honor of sorts which emphasizes the negative stereotype around appearances that has hung over King’s a little bit in recent years.
The rough break down was about 25% of girls were triangles, 50% were circles and 25% were squares.
In the earlier comments of this forum, it was established that all three schools are extremely competitive. I’m curious as to whether students within both King’s and SKC as a consequence of this competitive culture, develop a personality that aligns with Machiavellianism?
As far as New Zealand goes these schools have strong and healthy competition within key sub-categories (high end academics, rugby, bands etc). I would say the competition is not extreme by any standard and is always fairly friendly and amicable.
Raffles High School in Singapore is for local students who have excelled at a series of ranking exams throughout different levels of their schooling from a very young age and the kids at the school represent the top of the top in one of the strongest academic countries in the world. This creates very intense competition.
Machiavellian means cunning and seeking to advance one’s career through unscrupulous means. I would say this is more a personality trait than anything fostered or accentuated in these environments especially.
I’m a recent graduate of King’s. I was a top scholar and had a top leadership role. Here are my few thoughts on King’s:
The academic culture is what you make of it. Most of the teachers are actually quite passionate about their subject, and so they will greatly appreciate and reciprocate when students show enthusiasm and curiosity for their subject. Most of the complaints that I heard throughout my time were because students weren’t proactive or keen enough about what they were learning.
The leadership opportunities at King’s are outstanding. There is a whole range of roles in school, in the houses, in the chapel, and plenty more one-off opportunities throughout the year. During the time I was in a prominent leadership position, there was an incredible amount of open-mindedness from the teachers about the events and initiatives that I could organise. I still carry with me today the lessons that I learnt from these experiences, and they are proving to be quite useful in applying for a job.
A special academic aspect is the amazing Maths Olympiad training the school provides. From Year 9, the most talented maths students are encouraged to try out Olympiad Maths, and are mentored in how to do well. The IMO is one of the most prestigious academic competitions there is for high school students in the world, and with a sizeable proportion of King’s students attending the NZ training camp, it is quite clear that King’s can provide a solid head-start in this regard.
I started King’s as Year 9 student, and did not regret any moment of it. For me, the combination of the Cambridge system, academic resources available, emphasis on extracurriculars, and leadership opportunities made it stand out the most.
King’s focus on olympiad has not translated into results. Macleans has sent about 10 students to the International Olympiad in the last 5 years.
Saint Kents, Westlake, Kings, all are light-weight olympiad participants with very little success and are pretty light-weight participants in most academic competitions nationally.
I’m not sure why unless someone wanted to pursue a career in sport, he/she would weigh elite success in few high-profile sports such as Rugby over consistent academic success and rigour of a school like Macleans when choosing a school.
Sure, teaching is probably better at a private school. Smaller class size, more money to hire qualified teachers etc. But do you learn how to be independent and creative in a school where teachers spoon feed your learning? How will you cope with university studies if you’ve never done anything for yourself?
Leadership opportunities at a small private school like Kings, Saint Kents is minimal. The Head Boy at Kings College leads a similar student body to a House Captain at a school like Macleans or Westlake. It’s much easier to get a position at a school like Kings than Macleans, and the quality of leadership is low. At a large school like Macleans and Westlake, it’s very hard and competitive to stand out for positions and the quality of leaders who get selected is much higher than those at smaller schools. At public schools, you have more responsibilities and tasks which require you to go above and beyond the puppet figure at some private schools. There’s much more to leadership than being on school billboards and elite sport teams.
If you want your child to experience the rigours of high school and become prepared for the real world, send him/her to a high-achieving public school like Macleans or even AGS.
In the last 5 years, there have been
3 participations from King’s College
4 participations from Saint Kentigern College
3 participations from Auckland Grammar School
1 participation from Macleans College
Of the four schools, Saint Kentigern has had the most participations in the last 5 years.
Here’s a count of all the students who represented New Zealand at the ICHO and IBO.
In the last 5 years, there has been
11 participants and 2 reserves from Macleans
4 participants from Auckland Grammar
0 participants and 1 reserve from King’s College
0 participants from Saint Kents
Furthermore, in the last 5 years, from these four schools, Macleans has been the only school which has won a silver medal on the international level. In fact, Macleans has had multiple silver medals in the last 5 years at both the ICHO and IBO.
Due to the preppy style of IMO where nearly all of the kids who make the team have been training since a very young age through private tutoring/academies, it’s almost impossible for late starters to compete. It’s pure luck that Saint Kents have done relatively well recently in the IMO than an actual reflection of the school’s academic environment.